[21:59:47] the tension!!! [21:59:51] i cant stand it! [21:59:56] Ask in the appropriate channel about your irc client. :) [21:59:59] * stockh0lm faints [22:00:09] weasel bitchx ? [22:00:20] BrandenRobinson is Overfiend? i had no idea!!! [22:00:24] no, irssi [22:00:26] weasel: /window new [22:00:44] ooh [22:00:48] hush now [22:00:55] haha [22:00:59] sshhhh! :) [22:01:01] are candidates not allowed in THIS channel? [22:01:16] yes, but hush, we are trying to pay attention [22:01:24] stockh0lm, I hope you didn't say something nasty about Branden to "Overfiend"... :-) [22:01:42] * m2 has the weird feeling he's desynced... [22:01:48] GyrosGeier: only nasty things. [22:02:01] hiya m2, ltns [22:02:11] weasel: sure, /window new split [22:02:28] yea, I figured that. now I need to figure out how to bind them - *sigh*, never needed that before [22:02:34] liiwi, hey, howdy? [22:02:38] hey m2 [22:02:43] yes [22:02:44] oops [22:02:48] hehe [22:02:51] gentlemen, start your engines [22:03:00] hmm, only 111 people present [22:03:09] out of ~1000 that's not great :s [22:03:14] davidw: oh no, I just saw that bad movie with Stallone [22:03:16] Where are the questions from anyway? (No, I havn't been reading the announcements) [22:03:19] sigh, too late to question bomb, it seems :\ [22:03:19] davidw: now you reminded me again [22:03:20] some of the people are sheep [22:03:20] not suprising [22:03:24] ifvoid: friday is not a very good day. And a lot of people does not IRC [22:03:24] stupid alarm [22:03:25] i like that system. cool. [22:03:27] most of that 1000 don't irc or aren't even active [22:03:32] it's the middle of the workday in the US [22:03:35] some of the people are working [22:03:39] Beowulf: iirc, there were much more people last year [22:03:44] * vorlon_ isn't working, nosir. [22:03:46] hopefully more will read the logs [22:04:03] * Snow-Man isn't at work, really. O:) [22:04:11] weasel: and /ignore #debian-dpl-{debate|discuss} JOINS PARTS QUITS <-- this should be helpful, too :) [22:04:17] and it's midnight in the civilized world ;) [22:04:17] In the meantime... [22:04:22] Snow-Man: debian-vote, and dbharris collected some over private email [22:04:22] Anybody in here have any questions? [22:04:22] stevee: thanks, I don't mind them [22:04:28] this is also an election without many divisive issues [22:04:43] (about how the debate is gonna look.) [22:04:57] Hmm. I wonder how to do that in erc [22:04:59] ifvoid: doh, thanks. [22:05:01] joeyh: Almost _all_ the questions, I felt, weren't real great ones... [22:05:23] Of course, my current question is probably too technical to be really a DPL issue anyway. [22:05:26] dbharris: what a leader is in their opinion [22:05:29] joeyh: maybe that's a good thing [22:05:31] joeyh: Most of them ended up asking the DPL about their personal opinions on fairly major technilogical stuff ... and yet, I seriously doubt any of them will do anything other than follow or build consensus :) [22:05:53] somehow everyone agreed in basic points. At least three of them. [22:06:02] * Snow-Man hangs his head in shame. :) [22:06:18] Snow-Man: I think you can still ask the question here [22:06:30] Apparently, the people submitting questions all want a DPL who micromanages releases? [22:06:31] could they not post them in turn? [22:06:34] gack [22:06:35] posting all at once is hard to read [22:06:37] yow, candidate flood [22:06:40] flood not fun... [22:06:41] * miro shrugs [22:06:42] eep, this is not optimal [22:06:46] dbharris: arg! stop that! :) [22:06:51] ifvoid: Yeah, but as dbharris said, it'd kind of technical and not really a good question probably. :) [22:06:52] one at a time! [22:07:04] I agree with tore. [22:07:09] yumm [22:07:13] dbharris: might as well start next q now [22:07:21] or not NM [22:07:25] hm, statements with smiles say more than they should [22:07:26] it would help if the candidates would put their answer on a single logical line [22:07:27] /msg them at once, and post sequentially [22:07:28] * davidw decides to read the on-line version when it's posted [22:07:30] dbharris: Can you maybe ask them to go in some turn, changing the order each time to avoid appearance of favoritism? [22:07:50] Oh, doh, he already said he's gonna do that. :) [22:07:56] Okay, anybody have any questions? [22:07:59] liw: they have a habit of using stupid clients that break lines at the wrong places [22:08:00] Snow-Man: though i don't think the order is relevant [22:08:02] liw: irc has single logical line length limits :-) [22:08:02] liw: there is a line length limitation in irc, you know ;) [22:08:18] joeyh, good, that limits the political verbiage :) [22:08:32] liw, yeah [22:08:42] the line length isn't the problem so much as the clients which assume that they can _send_ 510 bytes per line and have it work, and thusly drop the ends of the lines [22:09:21] liw :) [22:11:06] hmm, question to the candidates to dbharris by msg? [22:11:27] JimButton: just ask them here, I guess [22:11:28] JimButton: I think he just wanted it in here. [22:11:41] Though, well, if the candidates are in here they could get an advantage or some shit I guess. [22:11:41] i'd like to ask moshe whether he thinks that over-ambitious DPLs would cause any harm [22:11:58] Yeah, just in here. [22:12:04] Prefix them with my nick, though, so I'll see the highlight. [22:12:07] (Please and thanks :) [22:12:08] well, stupid, we are educated people, not necessary to be overly formal :) [22:12:17] JimButton: and also whether he think sthe other candidates are overambitious [22:12:18] dbharris: i'd like to ask moshe whether he thinks that over-ambitious DPLs would cause any harm [22:12:22] I want to know if the candidates are all human, and not cabbages or something [22:12:35] bah, don't people know what the DPL role is [22:12:43] asuffield: you better don't wanna know :) [22:12:44] asuffield: Better check if their keys are actually signed. [22:12:45] asuffield: or some fictiteous person, made up by Manoj [22:12:47] m2: no, damnit [22:12:51] ifvoid: :) [22:12:52] JimButton: I'll ask that that be kept to the list. [22:13:05] asuffield, or vampyres, and get in trouble with buffy when she is elected [22:13:06] m2: no, but I know that a DPL roll is like a croissant. [22:13:13] JimButton: (Trying to keep live questions to those of clarification and whatnot.) [22:13:13] JimButton: you want to elect a cabbage by mistake? [22:13:21] vorlon_ lol [22:13:34] I'd like to know from the candidates what they think about all the time and resources we waste supporting useless architectures like m68k and sh [22:13:37] dbharris: ok [22:13:38] dbharris: "What will you do to decrease the 'stonewall culture', or do you feel that it is not a problem?" [22:13:56] I don't think we've ever actually supported sh [22:14:01] ds-work_: what is stonewall culture? [22:14:08] Well, that was ugly. [22:14:09] Who's wasting resources supporting sh? [22:14:11] hey biella [22:14:24] * Snow-Man waits of dbharris to be knocked offline. [22:14:27] Keep the questions to those of clarification, please. [22:14:28] I would like to ask the old non-free-yes-or-no question: what would they as DPL do: fight non-DFSG software by the next occasion or tolerate it as it is currently done. [22:14:36] * joeyh notes that AFAIK "Universal Operating System" was something someone checked into webwml cvs back when, in a fit of grandiosity [22:14:40] hey tbm [22:14:42] biella: allow me to rephrase that [22:14:44] Normal questions were solicited for at least a week or two already, we've got all the ones we're gonna get to :) [22:14:53] * jkm decides that he should just read the transcript, as following is too bloody difficult :) [22:15:00] Okay, anybody need to ask any questions? [22:15:03] md: why not drop i386 and only have k-whatever and i686 instead [22:15:03] they all they the same, what a scandal! :) [22:15:10] lol, moshez is good. [22:15:18] part: because it would be stupid [22:15:18] part: because I have an i386. any further questions? [22:15:24] part: there were several flamewars over that [22:15:34] * Manoj applies folding functions to the debian-dpl-debate emacs buffer [22:15:39] ifvoid: like I didn't know that [22:15:47] Manoj: foldl or foldr? [22:15:50] ;) [22:15:54] we have three cloned candidates? [22:15:56] * Marvin-- has been hacking Haskell today [22:15:59] Marvin--: line wrapping :) [22:16:04] Beowulf: haha [22:16:04] Beowulf: Apparently. [22:16:07] Beowulf: it looks like it [22:16:11] hahaha [22:16:13] The questions kinda suck tho. [22:16:23] Beowulf: but one of them accidentally had a little bit of the secret ingredient, "Chemical X", added to the clone vat. [22:16:28] Oh, ok, that last question was decent. [22:16:34] hah [22:16:36] no [22:16:36] that's a nice question [22:16:39] nice [22:16:42] no it wasn't. it's like asking pop stars what their favorite colour is. :P [22:16:49] anyone take bets? [22:16:49] ds-work_ still working on the rephrase? [22:16:52] <^iD^> green :P [22:16:56] at all. They can vote whatever they want as if they were voting himself :) [22:16:56] joeyh: the concept has stuck, though [22:17:04] asuffield: no, it's like asking pop stars what music they like [22:17:04] asuffield: Hey man, at least the answers will be different and thus more interesting. [22:17:12] * weasel would vote for cowboy neal [22:17:21] haha [22:17:22] biella: yes. I'm at work, which is making this, um, tedious [22:17:24] bleh slashdot... [22:17:25] Yeah, I expect the candidates to hate the people who came up with that question. [22:17:27] * mhp 'd vote for buffy [22:17:27] (I'm not telling though :) [22:17:28] overfiend will vote for tbm, i guess, tbm for bdale, don't know about the others :) [22:17:30] not robot101? [22:17:34] misato: haven't looked at it in ages [22:17:42] bah, pointless nitpicking by martin, I think it was obvious what moshe meant [22:17:43] dbharris: (too late, but maybe it fits later) How do the candidates intend to achieve univerality without sacrificing individual usefulness, or without the computing universe narrow way down? [22:17:44] It'll be interesting to see who _wouldn't_ get any votes. [22:17:44] ooh. yes, of course. buffy. [22:17:52] * Beowulf hughs Buffy! [22:18:01] (so, that's at least one person who missed the point) [22:18:11] hehe. [22:18:14] Moppet: well asked [22:18:16] Manoj: how many seconds do you want, btw? :) [22:18:17] .oO( what do the candidates think about P and NP? are they equal or not? can they prove it? ) [22:18:24] dbharris: it's not vicious, its just BrandenRobinson being a pita. :) [22:18:27] JimButton: yes! I want to know that too! :) [22:18:34] Omnic: HEhe :) [22:18:41] dbharris: question: should we stop releasing some architectures when there is not enough qualified manpower to make them ready for release (say, missing D-I developers)? [22:18:59] My prediction for Moshe is to vote for tbm, and bdale for tbm too [22:19:10] dbharris, question: Given that most people are idiots, *should* Debian be a democracy? [22:19:16] GyrosGeier: unfortunately too late to place bets :) [22:19:26] dbharris: question (for the very end, for fun, etc): Did you feed your tamagotchi today? [22:19:32] liw, does that count for debian developers too? :) [22:19:34] liw: ooh, the "benevolent dictatorship as the best form of government" thing? [22:19:48] hmm, quite political of Overfiend [22:19:57] Okay, everybody, read those responses and make sure you understand them. [22:20:01] (If not, say so.) [22:20:04] branden chickened out [22:20:07] booh [22:20:30] GyrosGeier: did you read the before? [22:20:31] hmm [22:20:32] I think I'm gonna vote for MosheZadka just because his response almost looks decent compared to the others in terms of the pasting and stuff. :) [22:20:43] liw: i don't think they are idiots, mostly they're just unknowing, clueless, not informed, or wrong informed [22:20:48] dbharris: question: should we invite developer who left because of problems (like keyring, frustration because of the releasy cycle) to rejoin [22:20:50] <_rene_2> GyrosGeier: good prediction.. [22:20:50] I understand all four are being political... [22:20:54] Beowulf, no just a guess based on the platforms. [22:20:55] haha, going for minimalist aesthetics Snow-Man [22:20:58] mhp: not that goddamn question :P [22:21:11] DanielS: why? It _was_ answered last year! :) [22:21:24] yes [22:21:24] dbharris: can BrandenRobinson explain [ 1 ] and [ 2 ] two for us :) [22:21:43] that was explained in the vote announcement [22:21:44] misato: entries on the ballot paper [22:21:49] ok :) [22:22:01] * misato locates a corner to sit in [22:22:15] dbharris: you can vote candidates on equal levels. like give 2 to two people [22:22:21] misato: he means he'd either rank them all equally or as inferior to "none of the above" [22:22:27] weasel: Yeah, I think I covered that. [22:22:31] Hahaha, 'cop-out, dude' [22:22:32] BTW, is there a web page where we can place bets on the outcome? [22:22:33] " I would vote for Martin Michelmayr." [22:22:35] bzzt, bzzt, wrong [22:22:38] those who are unaware of debian's voting process are irrelevant [22:22:38] dbharris: (sorry for my lag) [22:22:40] michelmayr, heh [22:22:42] * fd0 /clears [22:22:55] DanielS: better than michelmeier [22:22:57] they don't get to vote, so their opinions don't count for anything [22:23:01] * Kamion boggles [22:23:01] lol [22:23:01] *G [22:23:04] <^iD^> hahaha [22:23:05] <_rene_2> haha [22:23:06] lol [22:23:07] asuffield: heh [22:23:08] ? [22:23:09] oh man [22:23:11] asuffield: no, they can still provide entertainment like those people who ranked only one candidate in the SPI elections, thereby effectively abstaining [22:23:12] weasel: mikulmyer [22:23:13] because nobody made them, stupid :) [22:23:17] dbharris: that is not specific enough [22:23:19] the point of that one being ...? [22:23:22] dbharris: ??? [22:23:23] duh, whos question was that? [22:23:24] Zomb: Deliberately so, actually. [22:23:31] DanielS: na, meier, mair, mayr, etc are all common versions around here [22:23:35] "because it's not only technically impossible but legally impossible?" [22:23:37] whoops [22:23:38] Zomb: I won't mention it here, but I'll explain some of the reasoning behind it after the candidates have responded. [22:23:40] cygwin-esque GNU/Win32? [22:23:41] dbharris: follow-up for BrandenRobinson: how does he reconcile his vision for proactively addressing issues in Debian with his statement that he would rank Moshe's laissez faire platform equally with the other two candidates? [22:23:41] That question was kinda sucky. [22:23:48] what a stupid question :) [22:23:50] haha. [22:23:51] I thought -debate was moderated [22:23:51] oh god, this question sucks [22:23:51] Hey, it wasn't _mine_ :) [22:23:52] well, irrelevant :) [22:23:55] I just thought it was good. [22:24:00] yeah... who gives a fuck about windows? [22:24:02] * vorlon_ peers at that question. [22:24:03] * fd0 points at the win32-qt-license [22:24:03] (mikklemayor?) [22:24:04] dbharris: of course it was, Fri 23:22:54 Why doesn't Debian offer packages that run under Windows? [22:24:05] "d00d i did the apt-get install photoshop but i just gotz the .exe and i kant run it!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111" [22:24:14] okay, okay, one can understand free windows software in wine, others windows-software as part of debian-win32, etc. [22:24:18] dbharris: you asked it, we're shooting the messenger. [22:24:27] vorlon++ [22:24:32] dbharris gimme a break! they have to be DPL! no MCSE (Microsoft Certified Slaves of the Empire) [22:24:33] DanielS: lol [22:24:34] hey, .exes will run with wine+binfmt-support ... [22:24:35] DanielS: you need a space before the first ! !!1 [22:24:37] haha, moshez is confused sa well [22:24:49] 60 seconds is kinda too little I think, I dunno. [22:25:04] why don't we package MacOS applications like the Finder... [22:25:10] weasel: bahahahaha [22:25:12] I wish Branden would pay attention... [22:25:12] Well, that's more a historical or technical question than a DPL question, [22:25:12] but what the heck; probably about a year ago there was some interest [22:25:12] expressed on the debian-devel mailing list about a Debian GNU/Win32 [22:25:12] Project. However, it didn't seem to get much traction or support from most [22:25:12] of the people on the mailing list, and it seems to have been abandoned by [22:25:13] its proponents. So I guess the answer is: because no one has yet shown the [22:25:15] energy or dedication necessary to make it happen. [22:25:15] fabbione, that's Minesweeper Consultant and Solitaire Expert... [22:25:17] Kamion: well, you can't distribute the DLLs [22:25:24] GyrosGeier also :-) [22:25:29] whoo [22:25:31] dbharris: A better question would be: What do they think of Debian/Solaris? :) [22:25:44] * asuffield observes that time limits don't work in a censorless medium [22:25:46] DanielS: true enough [22:25:50] Snow-Man: ;-) [22:26:03] lol [22:26:11] asuffield: Hey, they've been alright so far. [22:26:22] Kamion: ergo it's more or less impossible [22:26:24] the fiend just demonstrated why they're meaningless [22:26:25] what kind of packages would those be? [22:26:29] BrandenRobinson: you mean that you'd love to see it happen and are about to start the debian-windows project yourself? :) [22:26:30] What are the various packages? [22:26:37] I'm not familiar with the LSB [22:26:42] biella: "Many developers complain of lack of transparency and difficulty in [22:26:43] ifvoid: apt-get for cygwin would be nice [22:26:43] Kamion: since the licensing clause says "you may not run this on any platform other than microsoft windows", or somesuch. [22:26:44] getting positive responses from parts of the organization. Aside from appointing delegates, what can and will you do to [22:26:44] rpm is one, I believe. [22:26:45] dpkg -p lsb [22:26:46] address these issues?" [22:26:52] dbharris isn't LSB based on rpm only? [22:27:00] DanielS: *we* can't do it, doesn't mean we can't provide the rope for other people to legally hang themselves with [22:27:04] Doesn't LSB compliance require rpm installed as default? I don't like the idea of that - idiot users would install rpms in /usr stomping over deb things [22:27:05] LSB uses a subset of the real RPM [22:27:05] gotach ds-work_ now i see what you mean by stonewall [22:27:09] ARGGH! Why do people ask that kind of questions to DPL candidates? Don't they have a clue what the DPL is? [22:27:15] fabbione: no, it's Minesweeper Champion and Solitaire Expert. [22:27:18] BrandenRobinson: bwahahahahaha, too busy talking here to answer :P [22:27:21] fabbione: Sort of, other people are answering it :) [22:27:22] great question... i mean it would be interesting for me that is for sure [22:27:22] m2: no [22:27:22] Keybuk: the rpm package today doesn't let you install rpms on the system directly. [22:27:40] m2: And your questions are.. where? [22:27:41] Omnic: well, Tetrinet champion IMO [22:27:41] so you use alien to convert first [22:27:42] Keybuk: joeyh isn't stupid. :) [22:27:44] Kamion: shaky legal ground seeing as the only possible use would be to violate a license [22:27:47] Zomb: TETRINET! [22:27:52] dbharris, question: who would be your most important candidates for delegated positions [22:27:53] DanielS: hey, not now [22:27:54] DanielS: wine hasn't been shut down yet [22:27:56] Omnic i have like a list of 30/40 different meanings for MCSE :-) [22:27:56] DanielS: the official wine response is that wine _IS_ a win32 platform, just one not from microsoft. [22:27:59] heh, here comes buxy [22:28:01] should TETRINET be added to Task and Skills check for new maintainers [22:28:02] Snow-Man, mailed a week ago to dbharris [22:28:08] weasel: yes [22:28:09] ROTFL [22:28:11] I meant RPM itself, not our rpm deb [22:28:11] weasel: good question [22:28:12] Zomb: um, what's MCSE got to do with Tetrinet? [22:28:15] weasel: hehe [22:28:16] Kamion: yes, but they do things other than using the official DLLs [22:28:18] * mako 's client highlights tetrinet 3 times and he gets excited [22:28:23] haha [22:28:24] DanielS: *shrug* [22:28:25] haha [22:28:34] mako, you have a highlight on tetrinet?! :P [22:28:39] weasel no way! dpkg-dev should pre-depepends: gtrinet [22:28:41] Kamion: ianal, etc, but if we provided something where the sole purpose was to violate the law, we may or may not be screwed [22:28:44] zarq: it's like 4 days old and it was a HORRIBLE idea [22:28:48] fabbione: ktetrinet! [22:28:59] fabbione: the code for ktetrinet is evil - it was my first kde project, and it shows. [22:29:02] mako wants to date a girls called tetrinet, of course he has it highlighted! [22:29:13] the Xlib stuff will be split out into an LSB module in lsb 2.0 [22:29:13] biella: no! [22:29:14] Omnic: absolutely nothing, it just come to my mind when thinking about RHCE [22:29:14] * Keybuk agrees with Branden there - given all Debian's current administrative argument, why ask future DPLs *technical questions*?! [22:29:15] biella, are there any? [22:29:18] bahahahaha [22:29:18] people should look at the scope of lsb in lsb discuss [22:29:20] m2: Then if you're lucky dbharris will ask 'em. :) [22:29:22] at least one person shows a clue in the answers... [22:29:23] Damn, something is laggy. [22:29:23] DanielS ok ok... ktetrinet | gtetrinet [22:29:26] as will the libgl another other desktop stuff [22:29:26] biella: i want to date girls named TETRIS [22:29:29] not tetrinet [22:29:38] whadda ya know, biella *did* manage to figure out what makes DDs tick, after all [22:29:46] right, sorry mako, subtle but important distinction [22:29:47] xlibs already get pulled into base if you use dselect [22:29:55] Keybuk: because everyone who knows what the DPL election is actually about has already made their decisions, and has no more questions to ask. That leaves only technical questions from the clueless. [22:29:57] they want to provide the standard packaging practices, and have people fall in place, from my skimming of the list (I'd be happy to be proved wrong) [22:30:00] fabbione: good man :) [22:30:00] dselect sucks ;) [22:30:05] tetris is a sexy name.. being named tetrinet would like being named "crack cocaine" [22:30:06] FIGHT! [22:30:20] mako: rotfl [22:30:28] mako LOL [22:30:31] taggart: eh ... what causes that? [22:30:35] * ilmari agrees with moshes' critique of the question [22:30:41] * fd0 too [22:30:44] hey, there's nothing wrong with being called "crack cocaine" [22:30:48] taggart: certainly wouldn't have thought that'd happen now with dselect's better recommends handling [22:31:05] DanielS: surely you are not a US citizen :) [22:31:08] taggart: technically, anything standard and higher... which != base [22:31:22] BdaleGarbee: true [22:31:27] more dpl humor :) [22:31:32] JimButton: thank fuck, no [22:31:39] DanielS: it might be dangerous nowadays, they will arrest you as soon as you wear a nametag, for being an enemy combatant or such [22:31:45] heh [22:31:45] hehe [22:31:48] dbharris: can you voice candidates in here? [22:31:52] Kamion: https://people.debian.org/~taggart/lsb/old/index.html [22:31:55] ah [22:31:55] misato: Sure. [22:31:56] dbharris: no fair covering up Moshe's trolling as a language barrier issue. [22:31:58] or something to make it easier to see who's around [22:32:04] who thinks the DPL's job is to talk to the press? [22:32:07] Kamion: those pages are in the lsb package now [22:32:16] we have a press team for that [22:32:18] weasel: the press does [22:32:19] Think that's it. [22:32:25] ds-work_: good answer [22:32:32] weasel: note: _a_ primary job ... and yes, that is who people think of who are not debianers themselves [22:32:35] ds-work_: educate them [22:32:37] dbharris: tbm? [22:32:37] weasel, the people who don't seem to know what the dpl's job is [22:32:38] dbharris: don't forget tbm ;) [22:32:46] The LSB, like many good standards bodies, has tended to codify existing practice, not invent stuff. Once there's some momentum, then the LSB can consider requiring all packages to be relocatable, or something like that. [22:32:53] dbharris: everyone agrees? what do we have the press-team for? [22:32:53] quote from the mailing list [22:32:54] non-technical press? like vanity fair? [22:32:55] Oh, right, different nick. [22:33:03] so pretty much everybody == the people without clue. makes sense [22:33:03] tbm: Apologies. [22:33:04] dbharris: why not ask leadership questions? [22:33:05] taggart: right, but I'd like to know what's breaking policy in such a way that that happens [22:33:11] stockh0lm: These are the questions people wanted asked. [22:33:12] * asuffield expresses the opinion that this question is founded upon a misconception [22:33:16] mhhh, some dpl should establish a politically debian party [22:33:29] I regret I didn't start thinking about questions beforehand [22:33:36] boring. /me goes to shower [22:33:39] weasel: given that pretty much everybody on the planet is clueless, I think those two sets overlap rather nicely. :) [22:33:57] yup. sad. [22:34:06] Kamion: dunno and I did those lists a while ago. At one point I was going to track those down but didn't get around to it [22:34:07] besides handling the press, should the dpl also mop the floor at the developers homes? [22:34:14] stockh0lm: yes. [22:34:15] stockh0lm: yeah [22:34:22]